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True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Question

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True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Question

Postby Charles Schefer » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:23 pm

Ever since I bought my PA-30 I've had plans to install an Aspen PFD and perhaps a new autopilot (though my Piper Altimatic III works well except for being sometimes finicky about holding the exact altitude I've dialed in). I've been researching all this for some time but am now trying to get a bit more precise. Equipment I'm considering includes:

 

1) Aspen Pro EFD 1000 (Primary Flight Display)
2) S-Tec 55X Autopilot
3) S-Tec 30 Autopilot
4) Century 2000 Autopilot

Obviously I would not be installing all three autopilots but rather these are the options I'd consider having researched the options fairly extensively. I realize there is plenty of room and probably energy to debate which option is best and why. The point of this post is not to debate those issues but rather to survey those who HAVE actually installed these items and ask if you would be willing to share the final resulting cost of installing one or more of these in a Comanche aircraft.

The manufacturers of this equipment provide fairly accurate parts cost but the install labor is where I get a very WIDE distribution of claimed cost. Some of the more expensive shops claim their price is more realistic and the cheaper shops are either cutting corners or low-balling. The lesser priced shops claim the more expensive shops are just over priced. Hence my interest in getting any feedback on real world installations in Comanche aircraft.

Since these are all things installed in the airframe independent of the engines I assume (famous last words) that there would be little variation in cost between PA-24 and PA-30 aircraft. Mine is a PA-30 "B" Twin (1968).

Any feedback or thoughts on true install cost would be appreciated. If you are willing to comment on amounts paid, could you also comment on the year installed (I'll factor inflation) and whether your install experience was positive or negative.

Many Thanks in advance to those who will chime in...

- Charles

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby N3322G » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:43 pm

Charles,

 

Century installed a 2000 as a sponsor for the 1994 world race so can't comment on expense. Can say we remain happy with the function accuracy - taking tuning every once in awhile.

Pat

 

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Andrew Foster » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:22 am

Charles,
We have an stec 50 ( same as 30 except the computer is in the panel, same function as the 30 ) this was installed in 2003, 6 k for the unit, about 3 k for the install back then.
Just did the aspen pro 1000 in jan. 10k installed, but I did give the shop my servicable kcs 55 HSI system. I also completely stripped the interior, all side panels, flooring, etc, and reinstalled after the work was completed. That saves the tech a bunch of time, and money on our side. In my research 12.5, here in so cal was the average, 15 k was the high end. JVB was also around the 10k range, and he would have been my first choice, but I was just too far away.
Love , love , love the aspen. Thier customer support is outstanding. Interfaces with the stec flawlessly.
The only sqawk I had was with magnetic interference from the trim cables. I replaced the overhead speaker with a shielded magnet kind, and called Aspen about degaussing procedures for the trim cables. The tech rep met me that day, at my plane, with a degausser, and spent an hour with me doing the procedure, recalibrating the compass, and fine tuning the pitch and roll. No charge and was just pleased as could be to make their customers happy. Really cool.
The amount of information when flying ifr is great.
Good luck
Andrew
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Kristin Winter » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:12 am

My solution to the Altimatic III problem, which was combined with the problem of insufficient funds to drop $20K into an autopilot, was to convert my Altimatic IIIB into a Century III, per STC. This was less than half the price and it got rid of the altitude pre-select and the finicky altitude sensor box that has parts which are no longer available. The installation is very manageable because the electric trim, the roll servo, the radio coupler, the glideslope coupler, and most important, the wiring harness is the same.
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby jeffrey aryan » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:00 am

Charles,

 

FYI,

I just purchased a used STEC 55X from another Twin Comanche member. I am trying to get it installed before going to Oshkosh in a month from now. My primary avionics shop quoted me 62 hours in labor maximum. They also said I could help out with some of the installation by removing the interior and mounting the servos and running the wiring. I think the answer you are looking for is 62 hours labor. That was based on their last installation of the STEC 55X. I think it would also help if you removed the interior yourself. That will save you at least 8 hours in labor.

Hans told me, when he installed his Century 2000 with the help of JVB a few years ago. He did a lot of the running the wires and mounting the servos. It apparently isn't hard, just grunt work that eats up time. Maybe you could do something similar. I hope this helps. FWIW.

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Don Nelson » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:53 pm

Hello Charles,
Not sure from your post if you're asking an installing shop to share the "cost" of installing, or just the info on how much, but I'd think you could get some good info from Richard Kurtz of Bakersfield Avionics. 661-393-1872 or avionics@ncinternet.net

 

They are long time ICS members and Twinco drivers, and have installed an Aspen and C-2000 in theirs. Actually, if I remember right, Aspen used their Twinco for the certification.

About 6 years ago they installed an Aspen PFD and C-2000 in my then 250 Comanche.
And 2+ years ago the Aspen PFD and MFD, and C-2000 with altitude pre-select in my now 30B Miller Twin.
Both those included a lot of other stuff, so I have no idea myself of the breakdown between avionics even, and other stuff.

1 caveat - My Twin has a Robertson installation in which a conflicting autopilot servo had been relocated. That created problems for the C-2000 installation STC requiring a delay, tho I've no idea of it's cost.

Seems no matter what, crap happens, especially in these old, ( but good!), airplanes.

Good luck and good hunting,
Best regards, Don

PS,
BTW, You might be interested in that the Comanche Flyer Foundation (CFF) is planning a Comanche Pilot Proficiency Program (CPPP) for the Leesburg area, possibly in October.
Dn

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby JMH23 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:42 pm

Charles,
In November 2012 I had J. A. Air install an STEC 50, with a servicable Autopilot DG, and Stec GPSS in my 260B after the original Piper Autocontrol II unit failed. Total cost was $18,390. I had provided the hole for the STEC 50 already in my Ron and John's panel, so that maybe saved a couple of hours of install time. I had other quotes that were up to $2800 higher. I was very happy with the work at J.A. Air, and unit has worked flawlessly so far. Hope this helps,

 

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:52 pm

Wow! Thanks to everyone for all the replies - very much appreciated. Don - thanks also for the CCCP note in October, that's only 14 miles from my home base at HEF - I'm very interested in doing that program and have been watching for one to come up nearby!

 

- Charles

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:52 am

 
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Kristin Winter » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:10 pm

Charles,

 

Century has the STC. I have some spare components. Email me at kristin_winter at comcast dot net and we can discuss.

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:32 pm

 
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:16 pm

Quick update on this thread. I had a long and very good conversation with Alan Flewit at Century. I am very impressed with Century based on the conversation we had. My new favorite wish-list autopilot is the all digital Century 4000. The 4000 is approved (or quickly can be) for any airframe where the C2000 is approved so Comanches are on the list.

 

My first step will probably be to send in my old Altimatic III control head. Alan said based on the symptoms I described the problem may be there. The AIII has an altitude sensor bellows that is no longer available - which I knew - but Alan says they can integrate a new digital sensor to replace it if needed. They will analyze the problem for a flat $200 fee.

- Charles

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby N3322G » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:52 pm

Wow, Charles that is nice to know. Met Alan at AOPA Ft Worth last fall and was impressed with him. Great to see his new blood at Century.
Pat

 

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:09 pm

Pat - yes I was duly impressed with Alan. Like him a lot. From what he said it sounded like they had just completed a few 4000 installs in PA-30s (unless I misunderstood).

 

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Kristin Winter » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:01 pm

Great to know that Century has a fix for the bellows going bad.
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Charles Schefer » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 am

 
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby WMD » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:16 am

Charles,
If you do decide to go with the Aspen Pro EFD, consider also installing an Aspen ACU (EA100). The ACU allows DG and attitude information to come from the Aspen Pro EFD unit directly to your autopilot. No other input required.
That is what I very recently had done on my Comanche - and it is pretty amazing. JVB did the install and found the combination made the aircraft handling quite precise.
Regards,
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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Andrew Foster » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:24 pm

The Aspen Pro 1000 comes with one ACU( analog controll unit) . Ours was mounted on the avionics rack behind the baggage bulkhead. From what I understand it changes analog signals to digital so the display can use . One unit was enough for our Stec 50 autopilot, kx155 w g/s and the 430 w.
The other components are the display, and the antenna unit( this unit also has integral in it a oat sensor and a magnometer)

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby WMD » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:31 pm

Andrew,
My autopilot is the C2000 which may be why it required the extra box. JVB told me it was "interesting" finding a place to mount the second box. From Aspen's website - http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/e ... autopilots

How do you find the flight control using the Aspen to supply DG and Attitude information to your STEC?
Regards,
Bill

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Andrew Foster » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:15 am

The Aspen is great. Customer support outstanding. I would say it took me five to ten flight hours to make the transition and feel comfortable with all the capabilities. The best was the gpss steering. I can hit the obs on the 430 and the Aspen will fly the complete missed approach including the hold entry. While I am a strong advocate of keeping instrument skills proficient, in single pilot operations an extra added degree of saftey is added. There is a lot of information available.
I do not have the synthetic vision, but I hear it's cool. Much like automatic vs manual transmission.
I'm thinking about adding the trig transponder to add ads b compliance and TIS to the display.
We'll see. Trying to get through my baffle project as it is
Good luck

Andrew

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby jeffrey aryan » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:03 am

Andrew,

FYI,

If you can afford it buy two Aspens do so. Then you will get a back-up and you can put some moving map functions on it. You will also be able to eliminate a couple of other things according to your instrument setup. I want to do that to my plane.

Also, the synthetic vision is nice but not really worth the money they are asking for it. There is a 20 percent markup on the retail end, so if you subtract the 20 percent it's not bad. I would try to wait for a AOPA event or an airshow too haggle with price. Talk to the Aspen sales rep and make a deal with him. Then go to your avionics shop and tell them they will be getting a call from the sales rep because Aspen won't let anyone but a authorized shop do an installation the synthetic vision takes about 1-2 hours labor.

On the ADS-B front, my shop says to wait and see what is going on with ADS-B. The FAA has finalized what it can and can't do. There are too many variables right now with the system the way it is set up. I think waiting is a good thing on this. FWIW.

Please keep everyone informed of your progress.

Jeff Aryan

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Re: True Installed Cost of [Aspen / S-Tec / Century] Questio

Postby Andrew Foster » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:56 pm

Jeff
I Would love to do a second one, but it's just not in the budget.
The trig transponder is a cost effective solution for TIS. The ads -b is just a bonus .
Thanks for the feedback about the synthetic vision.

Andrew

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