Hi Joe,
My suggestion is to wait it out. Do nothing. It may take a year or so but one of S-Tec/Garmin/Trutrak/Trio should come out with something. I have $70K of avionics in my Comanche and the only thing that is not cutting edge is the S-Tec system 50 autopilot. Garmin offered me (I’m one of their largest dealers) a free GFC-500 if I gave them my airplane for 5 months, but I just can’t do without it for that long. After a year if no one has come out with an STC for a new autopilot, I will take one for the team and give them my airplane. After that you will be able to get Garmin’s autopilot if you like.

John Stark
N8029P

Well I’ve run into an issue with my S-Tech 60-2 autopilot and I am looking for suggestions. I noticed roll oscillation a month back specifically during climb or level flight with light turbulence. The wing rock is very noticeable to most of the pilot friends that have flown with me. It can be stabilized by adding opposite pressure both ways to “settled the rolls. I recently had it in the shop and had the turn coordinator overhauled. The roll servo tested ok. The oscillations have continued. I am at a loss and would appreciate any advice or ideas.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Rick Stansley
N8898Y

Hi Rick.
First thing to check for is the cable tension of both the aileron cable and the roll servo bridle cable. In my experience it is either that or high startup voltage on the roll servo. Since someone has checked the roll servo, check the cable tension.

John Stark
Stark Avionics

I spoke to TruTrak at Oshkosh this year and they told me that they expected to have Comanche STC’s by next summer. This past week I followed up to them with an email and they stated that it is slated to e worked on Q1 of 2019. So hang tight… we will hopefully have another option soon.

Actually, Garmin is promising the GFC-500 for the Comanche in the next 12 months also.

John Stark

Thanks John,

Took it yesterday and had the cable tension checked, they were good. I had them realign the turn coordinator to make sure it was level in the panel. That improved it operational but is still oscillating. It acts the same in GPSS and Heading mode. I am wondering if the computer has to go to S-Tec for a overhaul. I am hoping that the 3100 Digital gets STC’d for the PA39. I would upgrade along with a Aspen and a GTN 750 if I could.

Call Josh at Lafayette Avionics in Lafayette, IN. He may be able to help you. -Kevin

Lafayette Avionics 1-765-743-3828

I spoke to TruTrak at Oshkosh this year and they told me that they expected to have Comanche STC’s by next summer. This past week I followed up to them with an email and they stated that it is slated to e worked on Q1 of 2019. So hang tight… we will hopefully have another option soon. 

Actually, Garmin is promising the GFC-500 for the Comanche in the next 12 months also.

John Stark

My PA 39 needs a new autopilot and my avionics shop encouraged me to wait for the GFC 500. I would encourage all of us to go to the Garmin website and email them with our interest in getting an STC for our planes.

Rob Stewart
N8PX

I have a Stec 55X which is nice With my Garmin 500s and 750/650 combo and have heard the GFC 500 is remarkable.

Wonder if I could get a decent trade?

Does anyone have any updates to progress with any of these players in the autopilot world? Thank you in advance for input.

Yesterday, at Sun-n-Fun, I spoke with Garmin/TruTrak/S-Tec and here is what they said…

Garmin… on the list to “evaluate” but not in the queue for certification yet. They did say that they have heard from a number of owners expressing interest and they will be meeting after SnF to see if it should be added to the queue. They did say that even if this does happen, it will still be over a year until certified. I would recommend ALL Comanche and Twin Comanche owners to express interest to Garmin, so they will add us to the queue.

TruTrak… The Comanche’s are next in queue for certification, so they are expecting something later this summer. Although it will be an inexpensive option, unfortunately, they don’t currently have an autopilot that will couple a GS. Not a deal breaker and better than nothing, but still not the best of options.

S-Tec… They are also gauging the interest and want to get 20-25 owners with at least “high interest”, so they can present to the boss for approval to start certification. So this is another one where it would be recommended that all of us express interest, so we can get them working on it and have something eventually. It will also likely take a year or so to get certified.

Basically, we all need to work together to express interest, even if our current autopilots are working. My Altimatic III is still working great, but I know it won’t last forever. Eventually they will fail and we will need an option. I for one can say that as much as I love my Twin Comanche, to make it valuable to me long term, I have to have an autopilot. Hand flying is fun, but not so much when travelling.

Lets all work together to keep these birds flying and supported! 

Yes please contact Garmin and show your interest! We were on the list for “the next 12 months” about a year ago and now we are pulled off the list. This would only be because not enough people showed interest. I am one of the largest Garmin dealers in the country and I can’t get them to do it alone for just my Comanche. I need your help to push them. I have got some calls into them now and I will let you know if anything has changed.

John Stark
Stark Avionics
N8029P

John,
Just saw the press release about TruTrak now being part of Honeywell and wonder if that will effect the certification process. My first choice would be Garmin and I filled the form already a while ago. Do you think it makes sense to gather a list of interested owners via the ICS and to present it to them in addition to anyone filling out the form for themselves where we have no idea how many did it? I am a “high interested” owner for sure…
Gunnar Mann
PA39 N710ME

I am in the same situation as Joe. I purchased my Comanche mid 2018 with a view to setting it up for single pilot IFR. I installed GTN650 + G500 + G5 + GMA345 + GTX345 with the intention of adding the GFC 500 later. Seemed like a good plan at the time – then they dropped the Comanche from the future STC list.

Brett Goodrich
VH-VAK

There is just not enough of us going to the Garmin website and signing up showing interest. You don’t have to buy anything or give any deposit. It’s just a numbers game. If enough people show interest then they put us back on the list. If we as Comanche owners, no not take the time to go to their website and sign in showing interest, then it just won’t happen. Ever.

John Stark
Stark Avionics LLC
N8029P

Yes Joe I see you have done your part. I also completely agree that if Trutrak comes out with theirs that it is likely Comanche owner will go for the first thing available. Please send the N numbers of all interested parties for the GFC-500. I will take it to Garmin myself. My shop is one of the largest Garmin shops in the country and I will use what ever pull I have to move things along.

John Stark
Stark Avionics LLC
N8029P.

Would an email from the ICS to members be a possibility? There may well be owners out there who don’t read the forums regularly but would lend their support if they were made aware of the situation. I think that if the Comanche is excluded from avionics advances like the GFC-500 it affects all of us to some degree.

Brett Goodrich
VH-VAK

I received this a few minutes ago from S-Tec. I got their permission to post it:

After a very enthusiastic Airventure, I am very happy to report that we are over the top! We have received enough pre-orders for the certification of the 3100 DFCS in the PA-24 to proceed to the step – getting the certification on the schedule. It was a pleasure to meet many of you at the show. Thanks for taking the time to stop by and thanks for all the enthusiasm!

If you have not submitted an order, don’t worry. By placing an order now you will still be eligible for the extended warranty. Contact either me or your S-Tec dealer for details.

Lastly, we would like to use a PA-24-400 for the certification as this would cover all PA-24 models. If we cannot locate one, we can work with a -260 but the -400s would have to be added later. If you or someone you know if interested, please contact me!

Thanks!

Mike Demeter

Regional Sales Manager

M: 940-654-0182

Email: mike.demeter@genesys-aerosystems.com

Website: http://www.genesys-aerosystems.com

Genesys Aerosystems
Precise Performance, Proven Experience, Personalized Attention

John Stark
Stark Avionics LLC
N8029P

I think the $20k price tag plus install for the S-Tec unit discourages most of us.

Michael

$16,500 + labor is what the System 3100 should cost and that includes both manual electric trim and automatic trim. Labor should cost around $6000. That puts the install cost at $22,500.

GFC-500
G5 ADI $3000 installed
G5HSI $6300 installed
GFC-500 2 servo $13,000 installed
Pitch trim option $3000-$3500 installed
Total $25,300 installed

If you opt out of the pitch trim it would be $22,300 installed.

Now to be fair you get an ADI and HSI with the Garmin, but if you are not comfortable with the $22K price point then you will need to consider the Trutrak.

I spoke to TruTrak a few weeks ago and they were non committal about PA24s and PA30s. I called Trio today and they don’t even have them in their list of upcoming STCs. Garmin is totally silent on the GFC 500 and Comanche.

I am beginning to think that new digital autopilots for Comanches are vague vaporware. The STEC 3100 will use your current servos if you have a current STEC but it’s still expensive. Maybe I will just hand fly the airplane.

Martin Horton

The Altimatic IIIB also drives the electric trim when the autopilot is engaged.

The Altimatic IIIB had altitude preselect. There is an altitude controller mounted under the panel on the passenger side. This controller is connected to the altitude select knob on the autopilot control via a bowden cable. The cable turned as the knob turned thus transmiting the knob position to the controller to set the desired altitude. So far as I know this was a Piper exclusive feature, hence the name Piper Altimatic autopilot rather than being called a Century autopilot, which it essentially was.

I’m not sure why your aircraft would have been upgraded to the Century IIIC . Is the Century IIIC approved for the PA30?

The 1D 395 and the 1C 515 are interchangeable. The 515 is a later design and a better unit since it is easier to adjust.

I’m located in New Zealand. we would need to work out the logistics of getting the computer to you.

Alan, fantastic, i thought these boxes might be aircraft-specific as well as system specific. you seem to know alot more about these than me. Mine has no boden cable that i can remember, its got a different head unit in the dash compaired to yours. Unfortunately i cant post a picture on here. I suppose the best is that i send you some pics by e-mail. My address is v6rumble@yahoo.com. Other more recent pipers than ours had these century3c systems. Ive seen Aztecs and other twinkys with the same system as you. Also a seneca with the basic wing leveler system. The previous owner has more STC paperwork to send me. I have miller tanks, double brakes and wing fillets and lots of other bits on mine, im hoping to find more paperwork on all of this including the AP.

Im an Irish guy living in france. My twinky is currently awaiting her irish registration. I have her in temporary storage and i will go back to collect my two dismantled IO320s engines in about a week and a half. I will take plenty of pics of the avionics bay and connectors. I wont be moving her to an airodrome before feb 2020 as im currently working on a new kitchen, and our kids are young only 3 and 7.

Im very interested in trying your computer/amplifier. We could send it by DHL or normal post, its not urgent. Its not heavy either, just needs a lot of packing. How much do want for it including postage to france and any other bits you have. I will of course send you any money required with paypal in advance.

I think i’m missing the trim coupler because i have two almost round (hexagonal) plugs hanging together in the avionics bay. They look like the plugs on a bendix king magnetic flux valve. About 6-8 round pins. It looks like the coupler boxes I have seen before. What do you think. Ive looked at some photos on the net and it certainly looks correct. Do you know what model coupler works with this system? It might even work without it.

I really appreciate the help and advice, and of course if there is anything i can do to help you as well.
Let me know how you want to go about this
Thanks
A 

Sorry for the slow reply. I will reply in more depth by email, hopefully tomorrow and you’ll be able to send any pictures

I’m pretty confident your aircraft would have originally had an Altimatic IIIB fitted.

Those plugs do seem like they may be for the trim control.

Regards,
Alan

Hi Alan,

Ive done more searching, I’m pretty sure that my aircraft originally had the same auto pilot as yours. It was modified to a century IIIc at some sage. The previous owner has more STC documents.
Send me an email and ill respond to you with the photos.
Many thanks

Hello all,
Does anyone have any experience with the S-TEC 30 autopilot? According to Genesys it is STC’d for Commanches
(180, 250, 260, and 400) and will interface with the Garmin G5/GPS. See the STC list at:
https://genesys-aerosystems.com/sites/default/files/files/GenesysAerosystems_STC_List.pdf

Still expensive. But at least it’s certified.
Thanks,
Phil

Hi Philip,
I have a lot of experience with the System 30 autopilot. I am using the system 50 in my airplane which is pretty much the same autopilot packaged differently. They are good autopilots. The problem isn’t if they will work well. They are just so expensive for what you get. They are around $16K or so installed. The 3100 is $22K installed but they are not apples to apples. The 3100 does so much more. If you are looking for an autopilot that will hold altitude well and do basic roll modes like HDG and Nav track, then you will be happy with it. No GPSS, glide slope capture, protection envelope, vertical speed hold, airspeed hold, altitude pre-select. You can add GPSS to it though.

John Stark
Stark Avionics LLC
N8029P

Hi John,
Thank you for the feed back. I just don’t see the 3100 in the list of STC’d autopilots for the PA-24. Sounds like its
a better option, but not sure its possible at this time. If I’m understanding this correctly, it would be a choice between
adding an autopilot now with the rest of the upgrade or waiting for awhile for the autopilot piece. Any idea if or when the
3100 would be STC’d for the PA-24?

Thanks,
Phil