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Oil cooler plate for cold weather

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Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Doug David » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:31 am

Does anyone know of or if they were ever was a cover plate or baffle for the oil cooler on the Comanche for cold weather, I can't seem to get the engine temp us as much as I like on the colder days
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby David Pyle » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:47 pm

Heavy duct tape should work. Probably not a good idea to block more than half the cooler.
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Ray B » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:45 am

I concur with Dave. I've only seen the "Red Green" method using duck tap and then only about half the cooler. Ray B
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:53 pm

Dont use Duck tape, use HVAC aluminum tape. It sticks much better and does not fray.
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby David Pyle » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:09 am

Zach,

 

Right...but it is duct rather than the edible duck.

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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:13 am

Yes, however the brand name of the silver fabric tape is "Duck". HVAC aluminum tape is designed to stand up to the hot/cold/high pressure environment. The NASCAR guys call it 200 mph tape, and Boeing engineers refer to it as 500mph tape...either rating is adiquate for Comanche oil coolers...
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby David Pyle » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:09 pm

Zach,

 

You quack me up.

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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Doug David » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:31 am

Thanks, I've been using Gorilla tape on our Cherokee with good results......(its black & looks almost like its supposed to be there) & 80mph cardboard on my Dodges & Kenworths.....I just didn't want to get a cooler messy with any residue when the cold weather is over
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby steen » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:46 am

Wanting to stay legal, the original question remains.....does anyone know of an STC for a "real" cold weather plate for the oil cooler?
Other Pipers have them so why not the PA-24's & 30"s?
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:34 pm

Steen,
They don't exist. Whether they are needed or not is also a question to bat around. Legally, since none are offered (if they were needed they would have been developed by the mfg) they aren't needed so why are people asking about them in the first place? :twisted: I'm sure your airplane is 100% legal in all other ways...100% conforming to the production and type certificates!:-)
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby steen » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:24 am

Thanks, Zach.
I sure hope so re all my planes legalities as I have always tried very hard to make sure everything used or attached to them is per original or STC'd.
We all know the Twinkie needs the block plates on the oil coolers.....I am sure mine isn't the only one that flies 4 hr. trips and the oil temps never get over 160.
I think the cowls were such a far-out reach for Piper...only 9 years before I flew one of the first PA-24's Piper built my PA-12 so progress was swift....that they were worried more about getting enough cooling and never dreamed their cowl design was so good that oil temps would be a problem.
The real question I guess I'm asking is why hasn't someone come up with a field approval, if not an STC, to use the PA-28-160 oil cooler plates on the PA-30?
Maybe I'll look into this with my local GADO.
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Charlie Tripp » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:56 pm

I’ve owned a PA30 for over 20 years and the oil temps have always been 180 – 190F on the JPI even in the dead of winter up in the teens. Oil temperature is regulated by the vernatherm. It does not open to allow oil to flow through the oil cooler until oil temperature is 180 or greater. If your oil temp remains low and your oil temperature gauge is reading correctly your vernatherm is not seating correctly or it is time to replace the vernatherm.
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Don Ostergard » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:55 am

I agree with Charlie Tripp. I've owned the same '59-250 for 31 years and live in Western Canada. Have often flown in OAT's as low as -35C and the oil temps appear to have been high enough although I admit this is from the original oil temp gauge which like all the others was clearly furnished by the low bidder. I have just installed a JPI 830 with oil temp readout but have not as yet had the "good" fortune to go flying in beastly cold weather. I will be watching the oil temp readout with great interest and will report any meaningful information.

 

If working properly the vernatherm should prevent the oil from circulating through the oil cooler before it reaches operating temperature. I have heard anecdotal evidence of the oil congealing in the oil cooler at extremely low temps before the vernatherm valve opened. My guess is that this is a problem that should never occur with the newer synthetic oils with their vastly improved cold pour qualities.

A caution for anyone living within 2-300 miles east of the Continental Divide: Don't EVER cover up your oil cooler unless you have checked the air temperatures aloft. In a "Chinook" situation one commonly encounters warm overrunning air. Here in Southern Alberta it is not uncommon to have surface air temperatures as low as -15C yet find the OAT at +5C just a couple of thousand feet aloft.

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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby steen » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:35 am

PA24's and 30's are not comparable re engine cooling as the cowls were designed by totally different people with divergent theories.
Re the vernatherms, been there and done that and they run cold in the winter, period.(PA30B)
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Doug David » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:21 am

Thanks for all of your input & ideas....looks like the FAA Gorilla tape is still the only answer to get the temp up over 180. The really sad thing is the guages in the 250 only are green or red.....& not much indication other than o sh++t until it is in the red. I'm new to the Comanche ( have flown Cessna & own a Cherokee 140) & love this forum for information. I really like flying this plane, love the way it handles & the speed......well you know........ :shock:
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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Don Ostergard » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:33 am

Earlier in this thread I explained that I have flown my '59 -250 in OAT's as low as minus 35C on numerous occasions, have never restricted the airflow through my oil cooler, and never felt that the oil was running too cold. This was based on information from the original oil temp gauge which as we all know is an exceedingly crude instrument. I also mentioned that I have recently installed a JPI 830 analyzer in the interest of receiving better information as to what is happening inside my engine, and that I would report my findings. Since I live in Western Canada, I knew that it would be several months before encountering some high OAT's.

In the belief that no sacrifice is too great when it comes to adding to the knowledge base that exists within ICS, (and in the interest of geting it into the hands of our fellow members without undue delay) my wife and I decided to fly our Comanche down to central Mexico, knowing that we would encounter a wide range of OAT's along the way. So here is what we found:

OAT -20C........Oil temp 177F
OAT -17C........Oil temp 184F
OAT -14C........Oil temp 186F
OAT -01C........Oil temp 189F
OAT +07C........Oil temp 188F
OAT +19C .......Oil temp 184F

Based on the above, one can conclude that if the vernatherm valve is operating properly on a PA24-250, the oil temp tends to remain quite uniform throughout the OAT range of Minus 20C to Plus 19C. It should be evident that I have no intention of beginning to cover my oil cooler in winter. I will continue the course that I have followed for the past 31 years.

I am now facing a bit of a dilemma. I'd like to stay here in this pleasant little Mexican town awaiting some higher OAT's so that I can gain more knowledge about oil cooling at higher ambient temperatures, yet I know that the later I head back north the lower the likelihood of encountering REALLY cold OAT's once I get home. Which will of course means that we won't be able to learn as much as we might wish to regarding the oil temp/OAT relationship at extremely low OAT's. In the meantime, I think I'll have another beer while I think about what to do next.

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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:55 am

Don,
Thank you for your sacrifice in briging us this information. I'm sure I speak for the silent masses, in saying I hope you didn't put yourself out in finding this information on such a long flight. I commend you on your judicious use of beer, and hope that after a few more, and some time to think about it, you may considder the flight back north...or not...we probably have adiquate data from your arduous data aquisition flight down.

Zach :mrgreen:

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Re: Oil cooler plate for cold weather

Postby 9089P » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:58 am

Hi Don,

I didn't want to hijack this thread but wanted to hear more about your trip so I started a thread under new destinations; "Mexico in Search of Truth". If you have a moment between beers you could fill us in?

Thanks, Don

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This topic was modified 4 years ago by ICS archives 2008-2018

   
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