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Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

 
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Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:33 pm

We just sold our 1967 straight Twinco that we owned for about 3 year and were looking for another one that had an updated panel along with tip tanks and found this airplane. This particular one has turbos which we have no prior experience with. Looking for pointers and peoples thoughts/experiences with the Turbo Twinky. Also this plane has an extra pair of outboard aux tanks bringing the total to 158 gallons usable. Has anyone had experience or even heard about this mod? All input and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

http://www.jacksaircraft.com/aircraft/i ... afts?id=99

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby N3322G » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:04 pm

Albert,

 

I have the outboard aux tanks on my NA Twin - you burn down the mains and then pump the fuel over. Ours were not well done, leaked and invariably had gunk when sumped. I had them disabled. I vastly prefer tip tanks, then the nacelle tanks for extra fuel.

Re turbo - unless you needed the function - they require more maint and add complexity.

Not sure how much it has been flown lately - if not a lot, plan on doing the engines.

Of course, get a pre-buy not an annual from an experienced Comanche shop.

Pat

 

Patricia Jayne (Pat) Keefer ICS 08899
PA-39 #10 Texas

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Kristin Winter » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:06 am

The airplane is really heavy. I wonder if it has damage or what. You are over gross with 158 gallons without even stepping inside. I would want to know what is up with that. Lots of other potential issues.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 am

It's about 200# too heavy for what it is. The air mod interior is part of that extra weight! Can't say much for the panel. It is updated, but stopped at the state of the art of about 1992. Not to say the stuff in it isn't serviceable, but you will need to spend close to 15K to be able to fly in today's airspace system (at anything other than big airports with ILSs) and add ADSB for the 2020 mandate.

 

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:14 pm

Meant to mention the issue about the weight in the beginning but they did re-weigh it yesterday and new empty is 2536. The STC for those tanks is SA1111SW. Says it increases gross weight by 180lbs. Is that on top of the 125lbs that the fueld tip tanks give you?
Last edited by Albert Murrer III on Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:21 pm

That weight is in the ball park. No, the Brittain and Miller STCs are not additive. You do get the higher of the two. The Brittain tip STC (or Piper kit if this was a factory turbo) specifies that you only get the 125# increase if you carry it as fuel in the tips. I don't remember if the same restriction exists with the Miller STC.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:31 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Timothy Poole » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:44 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:09 pm

G1000?? I know there is no STC for that in the PA-30, so that will be a pretty big field approval to bite off. Also there is not an ADSB solution for the G1000 yet so that will not solve that issue. It may save a few pounds over the existing equipment, but we are talking 10s not hundreds. What's in there other than the KCS55 system is not terribly heavy, and even it isn't that much. Going with an STCd glass solution such as the G500 or Aspen and an appropriate WAAS navigator with an ADSB in/out solution would be a much more cost effective way to go about it.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:31 pm

That airplane is based at the Dogwood Airpark not far from my home base. Locally it's know as "The Dog Patch". I don't know the plane or the owner but I do know someone else who lives at the Dog Patch and he knows the plane a little and about a year ago commented to me that he thought the current owner took good care of it and put quite a bit of money into it. I do know it's been on the market a while, I periodically look at TCs on the various websites (Controller, Trade-A-Plane, etc...) and it's been there for some time (over a year I think). During the time it's been listed I'd noticed the price has dropped from around 100K to about about 80K+ now I think?

 

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:11 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:01 pm

I'm also looking at doing the STC for the smaller nose wheel as well. Can anyone lead me in the right direction or let me know who to call/where to find it?
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Kristin Winter » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:57 am

The owner of the STC passed on and I believe that the STC is defunct. You should be able to get a field approval without too much trouble as there are hundreds of them out there.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:26 am

What Kristin said is correct. I can supply you with a copy of the STC for use as approved data for a field approval should you wish to go that route.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:54 am

That would be great Zach! Thanks to you both Kristen and Zach. Going up to look at it in a few days.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:14 am

Good luck with it Albert. By the way... it's actually a small nose tire STC not nose wheel. The wheel is the same, it's just approval for a different profile tire. I've got that on mine and it makes a difference on the ground and landing.

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:32 am

What size did you go with Charles?
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:36 am

Stock tire size is 6.00x6, 6 ply. The STC allows for a 15x6.00x6 6 ply replacement. The replacement tire is 1 inch shorter in radius so it lowers the nose one inch.

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:26 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:35 pm

The tire is two inches smaller in diameter so it does look smaller, but it is only 1 inch smaller in radius so it lowers the nose just one inch. It does make a difference, but putting an extra inch extension in the main struts accomplishes the same thing, or 1/2 inch less on the nose and a half more on the mains. If you operate into grass or off dirt/gravel or rough concrete runways, the extra prop clearance of the original tire is nice. The nose gear is almost online with the prop arcs so it translates directly to prop clearance. I think the small tire looks better but operationally you can accomplish the same things with a little pressure adjustment.

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Kristin Winter » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:43 pm

I have both the small nose tire and I adjust the struts. After surveying the last ten years of Twinkie accidents, there are a number of LOC on takeoff. The fact that the aircraft can be hard to keep on the ground until Vmc is reached, let alone Vmc +5, may account for some of that as pilots are wrestling to keep the plane on the ground when it wants to fly. Lowering the angle of attack while sitting, helps that and gives you more margin for safety. That being said, for unimproved strips, the original is probably better.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:21 pm

We had the smaller nose wheel on the Twinky we just sold and loved it. We also kept it at grass strip and never had issues with the clearance the entire 3 years we owned it. Definitely like the look of the smaller wheel a lot better but never flew a Twinco with the bigger one yet so I guess I'll see how it flies with it next week and decide if it's worth it or not. Heading up Monday to do a pre-buy and make a final decision on the purchase. Over 16 hours total of driving in one day. I hope it's worth it!
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:43 am

Albert sorry for the delayed response but Zach already gave you the small tire STC tire size. Mine has the 15x6.0-6 6ply (Goodyear Flight Custom III). Only 1 inch smaller but by comparison to the mains it visually looks much smaller and the nose is pointed far less skyward on the ground.

Good luck, hope it works out.

- Charles

IMG_5267.JPG

Screen Shot 2016-02-09 at 8.41.45 PM.png

IMG_5264.JPG
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:50 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Timothy Poole » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:08 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:07 pm

Great thanks!
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:01 pm

Yes the wheel remains unchanged, just the tire is changed by the STC. Also a somewhat related comment for what it is worth - the nose wheel and main wheels are the same size but they are different types. You can check the IPC for part numbers but the stock nose wheel is a different type to the stock main wheel tho they are all the same size.

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:17 am

Thanks again Charles. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of props do you have on your aircraft. I really like that white color scheme.
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:54 am

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:03 pm

Very successful! Airplane was in great shape minus a few things that will be taken care of in the annual. Got it for a VERY FAIR PRICE and will be picking it up in about 3 weeks. Mechanic has to finish another airplane before she gets to mine. Seller was extremely nice and everything was worth the 16 hours of driving. Ad should be showing sale pending any day now. My son and I started driving at 1am and made it there around 915am. Looked the plane over along with the logs, ran it, then sealed the deal and was back on the road by 12 and home in ATL by 830pm. Extremely happy with my purchase! Already have avionics shops working on quotes to get a GPS installed and the aircraft ADSB compliant.

Would you happen to have any more close up pictures of your props or ones that show your paint scheme and props?

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:51 pm

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:56 pm

Here are a few recent pics that show the props reasonably well. Thank you for the kind comments on them.

- Charles

IMG_4384.jpg

IMG_4379.jpg
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:30 pm

I really do like those props. Definitely different and stands out. I think I might be taking your idea :lol:
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:20 am

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Albert Murrer III » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:16 am

Is this the right tube for the goodyear tire? Straight stem?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/l ... tires3.php

G15/6.00-6 Flight Mate™, Also for 600 x 6 tires Butyl Tube TR 20, (2), S

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:18 am

I second what Charles said! Unless you have unlimited budget, best to make sure all the hidden and important things are taken care of before the fancy stuff. All the gee wizz avionics in the world dont mean much when you cant keep engines running, or the plane is sitting on its belly after a gear collapse. I tell people to budget half the purchase price for stuff you NEED to do in the first year, and not start on stuff you WANT to do until you have had at least three costly surprises. It usuallly works out about right....
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:26 am

Turn about is fair play... I second what Zach said!!! I bought a fairly premium airplane (IMHO). It's only weak spot was the landing gear and I took care of that after I bought it. In spite of it being a good example of the type I put a significant amount of $ into it the first few years. Zach's description seems very on-target to me.

Quick story...

I had Cliff Wilewski and his excellent team at Heritage Aero do the pre-purchase and took that straight into a first annual. I did have Heritage subcontract to an avionics shop to look at some panel stuff for me (which I ended up not doing). Cliff told me he joked with the avionics guys that "he got me first". Cliff told me the typical pattern with a new buyer is they go straight to the avionics shop for upgrades. Then... they get to their first annual (the infamous "catch up annual") and get a huge list of stuff that needs to be done which is out of the budget and they have a problem. In my case I did it the other way around focused on mechanical perfection first. Truly it cost a lot more than I expected or imagined. Not because the plane wasn't a good one after all... but because the reality is a 45+ year old plane that is being sold is inevitably going to have some stuff to be sorted out.

Focus on the mechanics first and the pretty avionics later. The plane has been flying for 45+ years without all those bells and whistles and it will continue to do so if it is mechanically sound.

- Charles

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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Charles Schefer » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:28 am

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Timothy Poole » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:34 am

 
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Re: Looking to purchase this aircraft. Any thoughts?

Postby Kristin Winter » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:06 am

There is just no substitute for a knowledgeable pre-purchase inspection. It is vastly cheaper than a $20K catch up annual.
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