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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:17 pm

All the way down to FL last week (and back) my right engine ran hot (almost redline). In general my airplane, which has lowpresti cowls I believe (rectangular inlet) ran hot. I deal with this by managing the temps by lower climbs, using cowl flaps, etc. However on this trip the right engine ran much hotter than the left. So much so that i never closed the cowl flap for the R engine even in cruise. I never have to do that. I am having my mechanic replace the oil cooler on the R and the veritherm. HOpefully that does the trick. Does anyone else have this kind of cowl? Again, not sure if i am using the right name, but it has the rectangular inlets. If you do, do you experience warmer temperatures? I am really hoping that the replacement of the Oil Coolers / Veritherm does the trick. If it does, I am going to do the same for the L engine. I am pretty sure it is not the oil temp / pressure gauges as they appeared to go in the proper direction under the situation, i.e. when oil temp went up, the oil pressure went down.

 

If I am missing something here, please let me know. I appreciate any of your thoughs. BTW - my mechanic said baffles were fine, and the prop gov, which recently was rebuilt, was also fine.

Scott

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Postby N3322G » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:05 pm

Hi Scott,

 

LoPresti inlets are round.

What was showing hot - oil temp?, CHT? All?

Did giving it more gas help?

You might consider checking injectors for blockage.

Depending upon your probes - it may be that one cylinder was hot.

Any other symptoms? Airspeed same as previous trips? Any yaw?

Pat

 

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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:21 pm

Yea, I kinda figured it was another cowl. I do know it is not from the factory. The cylinder heads were cool, at least that is what the factory gauge said. The only thing that helped the temp on the right engine was being in cruise and opening the cowl flap all the way. Only then would it come off of red line, but it would take a good 20 minutes to do so.

 

No yaw, no difference in speed. I will mention injectors to my mechanic.

Thanks Pat.

Scott

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Postby steen » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:29 pm

Ahhh, by engine temps you meant oil temp? That's a different animal and Pat's excellent suggestion to check FInjectors won't help. I think you already have the problem fixed with the oil cooler overhaul, not just a flush, and the vernitherm replacement. The engines on the non-turbos generally run too cold as the inlet/airflow design so efficient that is is really too big.
Keep us all posted.
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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:36 pm

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess you can tell I am not mechanically inclined :-) I hope you are right on your conclusion. I don't want to be sidelined for very long, the weather is getting nice. Good point on the flush, already did it at annual, and it didn't amount to much. In looking at my notes, it appears that the Cowls that I have are from Knots 2 U. So if anyone has similar experience with these cowls, I would like to hear about it. I suspect as you say that it is a oil cooler / veritherm issue.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Scott

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Postby steen » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:43 pm

My bet is the vernitherm if the cooler was flushed but doing both is the way to go.
Still keep us posted, will you?
Friends who have the Knots2U love them. I have about all their other mods but my original cowlings are in very good shape. I do love the Arapahoe windshield.
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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:46 pm

I have a bunch of K2U mods also. I will update the forum when the work is done and let you know what i find. Thanks.

 

Scott

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Re: Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby ics-12766 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:14 pm

 
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Postby Kristin Winter » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:34 am

 
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Postby charles Melot » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:24 pm

 
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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 pm

 
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Postby N8632Y » Fri May 01, 2009 1:14 pm

 
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Postby N3322G » Fri May 01, 2009 1:56 pm

 
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Postby T210DRVR » Mon May 04, 2009 2:32 am

I have a similar problem with my right engine, but everything is hot, EGT, CHT, and oil temp. I have engine analysers on both engines showing temps on each cylinder.

 

Checked mag timing and both mags were spot on. Fuel flow on the ships guage seems slightly lower on the right than left but only by .5 GPH or so. the problem is most noticeable during climb. I'm suspecting a combination of insufficient fuel flow at WOT and poor baffling. The baffling definately needs some work, but that wouldn't seem to be the cause of high EGT's at take off.

Ideas?

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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Mon May 04, 2009 12:03 pm

I would suggest you fix the baffling and move down the chain to see if you can correct. I just replaced the vernatherm and oil cooler. I have not taken the plane out to fly yet, but will keep everyone posted on how it helped (if it helped at all).
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Postby Zach Grant L1011jock » Mon May 04, 2009 2:06 pm

First, hot EGT's are not indicative of anything. Hot relative to peak is. EGT readings are very dependent upon many things, including where the probe is situated, RPM, Throttle position, and lastly, mixture. Comparing raw EGT temperatures from side to side is not a real good test for these reasons, unless everything is exactly the same...and it never is!

Fuel flow- the only way to get the fuel flows exactly matched is to send both servos out and have them bench flow checked and matched. Otherwise you are limited to adjusting the idle mixture for below 1100 rpm fuel flows, but that will have some effect on the higher end, but not much. Specs for the IO-320 engine are takeoff FF of 13.6-16.8 GPH at full power, sea level, std day according to Lyc. That is the spec, you can choose to have the engine set up anywhere in the spec.

CHT- BAFFLES, BAFFLES, BAFFLES!!!!!!! Ok, lets start with the flexible baffle on the nose bowl, that should be visible in the inlet. It should run from under the lip of the nose bowl, and should be OVER the top of the front cyl baffle. If it is under the lip, all the high pressure air is going to the lower deck, and decreasing cooling efficiency significantly. Next, look at the baffle material along the cyl. It should be on the pressure side (inside) of the hard baffle if it is attached by rivits. If it is on the outside, and in good shape, use copious amounts of RTV on the inside where the soft baffle meets the hard baffle, so no air escapes through the gaps. Next, look at the soft baffle on the rear baffle. It should be compressed and pointed forward so the pressure makes the seal tighter, not allowing air to shelf over the baffle. Fill any holes, and all areas between the baffle and the case with RTV to maximise the efficiency. Think like the air coming in the front. Try to maximise the pressure on top of the engine (uper deck) and minimise the pressure below the engine (lower deck) and the greater the delta P, the more efficient the cooling will be.

-Zach

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Postby steen » Wed May 06, 2009 4:40 am

Zach has it right!
The Twinkie has (still today) one of the best cooling nacelles ever put on an airplane IF the baffles are maintained to a high standard. The airflow design is very low-drag and very efficient but only if the baffles are "air tight".
I have seen folks get rid of high temps and gain TAS increases of 3-5mpn just by repairing engine baffles and RTVing leaks.
To say the Twinkie is a critical airplane is perhaps an overstatement but it sure gets a lot out of very little horsepower (fuel flow) only if engine baffling and airframe rigging are correct. A slight slip from optimal in either causes a noticable effect on performance.
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Hot Temps on 1969 Twinkie (non turbo)

Postby Scott Ducey » Wed May 06, 2009 2:27 pm

Thanks Zach and Steen. My mechanic is a Comanche savy, and he tells me my baffles are fine. However, I will print out what you both indicate and see if he has any response. Since my last post I did take the airplane out and did a number of take offs and landings. I brought up a bunch of Young Eagles, so the airplane got a lot of exercise. I am not sure that this was the best venue for looking at the temp problem, but she still ran hot. I want to try to replicate what happened down in Sun N Fun, and the only way to do that is to climb up to 9,000 and look at the temps there. It wasn't until I got up to that alt and leveled off, did the temps back off, and the right engine would only stay cool by leaving the cowl flap all the way open. Because of this problem, and because I am a relatively new Twinco owner, I am really looking forward to the CPPP to see if any of this has to do with me or if it is something else. Again, thanks for the input, and will provide an update when i have flow the plane a bit more.

Scott

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Hot Temps in a Twin Comanche

Postby Scott Ducey » Sat May 09, 2009 11:42 am

I thought i would let everyone know that I took the twinco out for a steep climb up to 10K feet yesterday to give the new oil cooler / vernatherm a test. I brought my mechanic along for the ride. I left the cowl doors open on the climb and there were no temperature issues, as I experienced going down to Sun N Fun. We even closed the cowl doors on descent, which normally would result in the right engine getting hot - fortunately, the engine stayed cool. I am not sure if was the new oil cooler or the new vernitherm, but all is well that ends well!!

Thanks for everyone's input and assistance.

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This topic was modified 4 years ago by ICS archives 2008-2018

   
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